Pay to play?
An interesting post over on Created in Birmingham about the Surface Unsigned festival, who seem to have threatened legal action against them solely for pointing out that the festival may possibly amount to being pay to play, since you need to bring along at least 25 people all paying six quid. Anyone from round here have experience of pay to play? Is it really the devil’s work or could there be benefits to be had? Have any Oxford bands had dealings with this lot?
May 19th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
[…] Oxford Bands takes it out of the Midlands […]
May 20th, 2008 at 7:33 am
“The purpose of this festival is to find the next big thing in the UK band scene.”
Well, that just says ‘we are out to rip people off’ to me. What organisation is really interested in the next big thing unless they can make a lot of cash out of it? It’s not quite pay to play as such, but it looks like a scam of sorts.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:03 am
Sounds similar to the Emergenze set up - an unsigned talent contest where the winners were based on audience vote rather than talent. So the more paying fans you bought the better your chance of getting through.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Oh yes, here’s the link to the debate we had on the Nightshift messageboard around the same time. I think it brings up some of the same issues: http://nightshift.oxfordmusic.net/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?t=2656&highlight=emergenza
May 20th, 2008 at 11:36 am
So Emergenza were a glorified Battle of the Bands contest. This one sounds nearly as cynical. Who gets the money?
May 20th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Well, from the original post, it looks like someone’s getting paid well out of these shows even if it’s not the bands.
‘ From how empty the venue was, it meant a lot of bands must of eat shit on ticket sales and bought them themselves, you also only get the money back from tickets sales if you sell all 25 which is even then only a pound a ticket. So for 25 £6 tickets, the bands get £25 and Surface gets £125 now there are a minimum of six band at each gig so that means each gig they get a minimum of £750 (not to much maths I hope, my head kinda pickled as it is but I will push on regardless), now the first round of the Birmingham heats there are 38 gigs, which adds up too £28,500! just for the first round, all this, according to the booklet, going towards
“Sound engineer, Venue, Booth Operative, Security, Bar staff, PA, Lighting etc”’
So if you got 24 people in at six quid, you wouldn’t get paid anything, and if you get more you still only get £1 per ticket…? Hmm.
May 21st, 2008 at 6:32 am
And it was fixed too. I was involved with a band in Bristol who got through to the regional final. I put a gig on at the Louie and the soundman happened to be working the final as well during our discussion he revealed that they had decided who would win beforehand. Only one band got to soundcheck (the “winners”) everyone else had to get on stage and just go for it.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:04 am
It is hard to break even, let along make money as a promoter. But, ultimately, I’d say it’s your problem, you have to have the knowledge to match the expenses to the predicted turnout.
Having said that, any band who pays to play dopes so on their own decision - I think it’s dumb, but what do I care if you want to? But, I’d say that if you’re prepared to pay to play, it’s money better spent to book a small venue yourself, get some amusing supports and invite all your mates along. That’s what we did, effectively & 6 years later GTI is still going strong!!
Contrary to most people, I think that BOTBs are good fun, and harmless. but not stuff liek this & EMerganza, friendlyu little ones like the Chalgrove fest 1st night, or the annual OU/Brookes battle. I’d also suggest that you must have a panel of judges, because audience votes are worthless. I’ve been a judge many a time, & it’s a right laugh…altho, it can be awkward when the panel disgarees…
May 21st, 2008 at 11:55 am
“any band who pays to play DOPES so on their own decision”
The typo seems closer to the truth than what you intended to say!
I agree though that if you’re going to lose money, do it on your own terms, don’t line anyone else’s pockets.
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:31 pm
As for Created in Birmingham, I’ve just read the original post and much as I hate Surface Unsigned, CiB should probably be shut down forthwith, even without lawyerly threats. Why?
A) Their blogging is a crime against grammar.
B) They have reviews of Ceramics
June 1st, 2008 at 4:16 pm
[…] Oxford Bands takes it out of the Midlands […]
June 1st, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Having played in a four piece band in Birmingham and being knocked out of the second round - it’s easy to see what this thing is all about. It’s a “who brings the most money to the organisers” competition. 0 to do with band ability and composition. The worst bands imaginable get through simply because they’re guaranteed to sell tickets on the next round (which conveniently goes up £1 per round, each round) due to their teen groupies.
Wouldn’t touch anything like this ever again — a warning to any bands that think this kind of thing will help them - devote your time to the music, do not waste your effort on “festivals” such as these.
September 15th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Interesting reading about surface unsigned..the 2008 final has finnished,the chairmen won,and the talk about the winners is they are signed by the guy who run Surface unsigned.Don’t know if its true,anybody out there can shed any light.